03/28/1996 02:05 PM House HES

 HB 348 - VIDEO/AUDIOTAPE INTERVIEW OF ABUSED MINOR                          
                                                                               
 Number 291                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, Prime sponsor, said she had                   
 introduced a bill in the Eighteenth Legislature which required                
 mandatory videotaping of all interviews in suspected abuse cases.             
 That bill was hotly contested and had a large fiscal note.                    
 However, this year she thought a good compromise had been worked              
 out by deciding what they were hoping to accomplish, and that issue           
 was accountability.  The Department of Health & Social Services               
 admitted they wanted to establish accountability and understood               
 they were having a problem in that area, but they were willing to             
 do whatever needed to be done.  As a result, this legislation was             
 put together that doesn't make anything really mandatory, but it              
 sets up a criteria for the establishment of a working group between           
 the Departments of Public Safety, Education, Law and Health &                 
 Social Services to establish a most effective method of                       
 interviewing children that might include videotaping, audiotaping,            
 team interviews, note taking, documentation and enforcing the file            
 content standards which has been a big complaint in that enough               
 information has not been left behind after an interview has been              
 conducted.  One of her complaints about the interviews and why she            
 supported videotaping of interviews is that she thinks it is                  
 unnecessary to put children through multiple interviews.  Also, she           
 felt it was important to cause as little stress as possible on the            
 families.  She said frankly, the people who wanted her to file the            
 original bill, hate this piece of legislation and don't think she             
 has done anything.  She agrees this legislation is a far cry from             
 what they asked for and wanted; however, she feels it's a step in             
 the right direction.  She noted it doesn't have a fiscal note                 
 although she would liked to have had some funds for training and              
 equipment, but the department is willing to let it go forward                 
 without a fiscal note because they believe it is an important tool.           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the State Affairs Committee had worked              
 hard on the bill and felt the language was about as good as it                
 could be.  She added the departments are being asked to put                   
 together some policies which will be made available to the public             
 for comment.  If there are some valid concerns raised, the                    
 departments would have the ability to change the policy.  She noted           
 there is a bill similar to her original bill currently in the                 
 Senate, but she didn't know the status of it.  The bottom line of             
 her interest is that HB 348 will make some difference.  It won't be           
 an overnight fix, but she felt it was very important that children            
 be treated kindly and when there is a suspected abuse or neglect,             
 not to make the child a victim twice nor make the family a victim             
 if they are not a victim.  There have been cases of suspected abuse           
 in which the staff of the department have been very ardent in their           
 duties to find the problem, when in fact the problem hasn't been              
 there.  There have been numerous discussions with the departments             
 involved on these issues and she is convinced at this point in time           
 that this will be a good thing to move in the direction of                    
 accountability and more respect for family unity.  She said the               
 only concern she has heard is that this legislation calls for a               
 work group of four people.  Originally, there were five which                 
 included two people from the Department of Health & Social                    
 Services; one from the department and definitely one from the                 
 Division of Family & Youth Services.  Concern was expressed that              
 the group was overloaded with Health & Social Services people.                
 Also, there had been discussions about a public member being                  
 included in the working group but they couldn't figure out how that           
 person would get chosen and who that person should be.                        
                                                                               
 Number 710                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY expressed concern that there was no mental health             
 directive in this group.  She felt that good mental health                    
 directives were vital when dealing with traumatic children, and she           
 wondered which department would direct that.                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said it would be the Department of Health &              
 Social Services.                                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY felt it was important to have input from a child              
 psychologist.                                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES responded that she would have liked five                 
 people instead of four making the policy, but there was a problem             
 in the State Affairs Committee in deciding who that fifth person              
 should be.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 787                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON believed this bill had come around to be an           
 excellent piece of legislation.  She felt it definitely set out               
 accountability and she was not concerned with the number of people            
 in the work group.  She suggested that language could be added that           
 these four people shall work with all their existing divisions                
 which would address Co-Chair Toohey's concern.  She was confident             
 the commissioners of the departments involved would ensure the                
 people participating in the work group would be the working                   
 advisors for their respective department.                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE noted that Diane Worley was present to testify and             
 asked her to come forward.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 897                                                                    
                                                                               
 DIANE WORLEY, Director, Division of Family & Youth Services,                  
 Department of Health & Social Services, testified the department              
 supports HB 348 and extended the department's sincere thanks to               
 Representative James and her staff for their hard work on this                
 legislation.  She noted the department was extremely distressed               
 with the mandatory aspect of the first legislation Representative             
 James had introduced.  She stated this is the direction the                   
 department wants to be moving.  In fact she is already moving in              
 this direction with better training for her staff, particularly in            
 the area of interviewing, working jointly with the Department of              
 Public Safety in doing joint interviews, looking at when it is                
 appropriate to use videotaping and moving in the direction of                 
 audiotaping, whenever possible.  Based on Co-Chair Toohey's                   
 comments, she recommended that perhaps two people from the                    
 department could participate in the work group; one from the                  
 Division of Mental Health and one from the Division of Family &               
 Youth Services.                                                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY interjected as long as the mental health person is            
 qualified.  For example, there are people involved with mental                
 health for geriatrics who are not qualified for pediatrics.  She              
 indicated she would like to see that included in the bill.                    
                                                                               
 Number 986                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said, "It appears the thrust of this group is            
 from a legal aspect, documenting and legal and I don't know exactly           
 what the file would contain - the purpose of all this.  But it                
 seems to me as indicated already, there's a psychological aspect              
 and I would think there would also be a medical aspect."                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said the file referred to in the legislation             
 is the file that is kept by the person interviewing the child.  She           
 noted that the problem experienced in the past was that notes were            
 taken when an interview took place and it turned out to be a                  
 suspected case not a valid case, so when the Ombudsman's Office               
 went to investigate, there was no record of what took place.                  
 That's what is being addressed by setting a standard of what  kinds           
 of things should be contained in the file to back up the action               
 taken.                                                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she understood what Representative James was             
 saying, but on page 1, lines 7 and 8 state, "The interagency work             
 group to increase agency accountability for and to improve methods            
 of interviewing minors..."  She said there is a certain way to ask            
 questions of these children and if they are asked the wrong way,              
 you'll get a different answer.  She felt that aspect was very                 
 important.                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE referred to Ms. Worley's suggestion of changing the            
 composition of the work group and asked if this required an                   
 amendment?                                                                    
                                                                               
 The response is inaudible due to more than one person speaking at             
 the same time.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said it would change the number of                       
 representatives from four to five representatives.  Two would be              
 from the Department of Health & Social Services; one from                     
 children's mental health and one from the Division of Family &                
 Youth Services.                                                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if changing the make up of the work group from           
 four to five would still maintain zero fiscal impact?                         
                                                                               
 MS. WORLEY nodded in the affirmative.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1128                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON said Yvonne Chase who is the Deputy                   
 Commissioner of the Department of Health & Social Services is one             
 of the most knowledge people in the world; hence, she would rather            
 it be left to read two people from the department and as far as the           
 rest of the participants, she was certain the commissioner would              
 determine who the most qualified person was to participate in the             
 group.  She would like to leave the designation of the two                    
 participants in Health & Social Services to the commissioner.                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for Ms. Worley's reaction.                               
                                                                               
 Number 1190                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. WORLEY felt there was validity in both arguments.  She                    
 understood Co-Chair Toohey's comments regarding children's mental             
 health, which is a big concern during the interview process and               
 also something the department deals with.  On the other hand, she             
 understood Representative Robinson's comments and concerns as well.           
 She didn't think the department would have a problem either way.              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said since it is the family and youth services           
 and children's mental health issues we want to address, she would             
 feel more comfortable if it was so stated.  She added this is                 
 designed to be revamped with a new administration, so while we may            
 be comfortable with the individual now making the decision, she               
 felt it might be wise to state exactly what we want rather than               
 leaving it open to interpretation.                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said the amendment would change the language on page           
 1, line 12, to read, "two people from the department, one from the            
 Division of Family & Youth Services and one from the area of                  
 Children's Mental Health" and on page 1, line 9, delete "four" and            
 insert "five".                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1261                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved to adopt Amendment 1.  Hearing no objection,            
 Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1274                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to pass CSHB 348(STA) am out of                 
 committee with individual recommendations and zero fiscal notes.              
 Hearing no objection, CSHB 348(HES) moved out of committee.